[Deleuze-Guattari] Severer error concernng Kundalini Yoga experiendce
Todd Conover
toddconover438 at gmail.com
Mon Sep 17 21:29:20 PDT 2007
Hi Bruno & list
I am also an artist (composer) beginning to read Anti-Oedipus. It is
nice to see others on DG-listserv. ! Perhaps something DG desiring-
production concept has to do with an attempt to efface the Marxian
division of (economic, technological) Base and Superstructure
(culture)? A division that seems to imply some level of social
function common to both.
I see a similar attempt in artist Matthew Barney's Drawing Restraint
-- a product of economic/technological relations (dockworkers craft
and load a metal object filled with a gray fluid) is central to
participation in the the sailors' dining ritual. How would production
of consciousness, or the idea that one's consciousness is fully
determined by symbolic placement within a larger social body, might
have to do with Freudian id I cannot so much write on.
best wishes Todd
On Sep 17, 2007, at 9:01 PM, Todd Conover wrote:
> Hi Bruno & list
> I am also an artist (composer) beginning to read Anti-Oedipus
> Todd
> On Sep 17, 2007, at 2:15 PM, Bruno Listopad wrote:
>
>> Hi everybody,
>> My name is Bruno,
>> I am trying to venture in Deleuze and Guattari universe for my
>> artistic work but I have no academic background. At the moment I
>> am struggling to understand Anti-Oedipus opening: Capitalism and
>> Schizophrenia:
>> "What a mistake to have ever said the id. Everywhere it is
>> machines--real ones, not figurative ones: machines driving other
>> machines, machines being driven by other machines, with all the
>> necessary couplings and connections."
>> What DG mean by the freudian id. within the context of the
>> concept of desiring -production?
>> could someone help me in this
>> Thanks
>> best regards Bruno
>>
>>> Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 13:35:51 +0200> From: hwenk at web.de> To:
>>> deleuze-guattari at lists.driftline.org> Subject: [Deleuze-Guattari]
>>> Severer error concernng Kundalini Yoga experiendce> > Hello dear
>>> memembers of the list,> > in the link concerning the blind born
>>> patient without psychosis, > there is a svere restriction anad
>>> erranous description concerning the experince of> advanced
>>> kunsdalini yogis.> As you konow from standard Freud writimgs,>
>>> teh Topology : Unconciousnes, Subconciousnesss and Conciousennes>
>>> involves two translations or dirxcting of> nerve impules to two
>>> higher> concoisess connected nerne synpses circuits. > Now, the
>>> very often and commen described expereinces,> #also uhnder very
>>> hard alocohol or other drugs,> of little insexcts,anoimals,
>>> spidres,> atbest an unspecific procklindg is a not full awarenes
>>> of> the deepeste true nerve impulses as such, therfgore> ther are
>>> symbolized as tiny animals or so latest for the subconcious -
>>> concious barrier. > > Now in Yog atwioo things happen: First
>>> there are more nerveimpuklse started than unsual, also the
>>> production of some more and new neurotransmitters.> In accordabce
>>> with good old Spinoza the yogus tzhen get, with more> nerve cells
>>> working together, a "True", tactile, felling> for> the nerve
>>> impopulses thenmselsvs,like the feeling is trie> if you pinch wit
>>> afinger nail in anozther finger.> Also according to good old
>>> Spinoz , this "trie" perception> leads to the vanishing of alot
>>> of imafineary oahanartsies, like thes animals> and also of the
>>> disturabnce of normal perception of th eworld by > false
>>> interpretated nerve impulses. > > It ias not only a state of mor
>>> eknowlegdge of more consioucesness,> bur also often ther
>>> ishaoppenuing a lot in the body,> most prominetn in the
>>> production of heat.> More never impulse, more consumptionof
>>> oxygen more heat - called taps in Indian yogc philosphy. >
>>> Controlled production of heat and tapas make sthe bod yand minmd>
>>> working much better. > The yogis know what they feel and control
>>> it, > especially more nerve impuls firing of the brain than
>>> usuall.> Lilke progfessional sportsmen (and sportswomen) also
>>> have> a much better functiong body und control,but focused to
>>> the> muscle part of the body. > > As undenaiblethinking and
>>> feeling is connected to brain activity, > it is a very desirabble
>>> state of the body and mind to be "yogic". > As pointed out again
>>> and again, > the develoment or a "yogic" sports men is often
>>> interrupted,> interpretating everythinh not in th enormal average
>>> as > pathological - due to a lachk of systematic experience with
>>> these> very great potentialsa of the human body mind. > > The
>>> model is adolesemce and the puberty.> The growing of the human
>>> soul does not stop with 21 in the average -> as you hopefully has
>>> remarked by your own experience already.> Of course there are
>>> doubts if tany development hast taken place until 21 not to ask
>>> for later ages, even worse a devolpment to the better.> So the
>>> agypsts wanted to say to the greeks: You wilL always stay >
>>> childish. ... > > In order to avoid diplomatic trouble.....-> >
>>> greetings Harald Wenk > > > > > > > > > -----Ursprüngliche
>>> Nachricht-----> > Von: deleuze-guattari at lists.driftline.org> >
>>> Gesendet: 11.09.07 17:24:17> > An: <deleuze-
>>> guattari at lists.driftline.org>> > Betreff: Re: [Deleuze-Guattari]
>>> waffling, again...> > > > > > Hi there,> > > > > thanks Chris for
>>> the psychosis link-its an interesting> > > proposition-i will
>>> make an effort to find out if there is anyone> > > who
>>> expereinces psychosis who has been blind since birth. i'm> > >
>>> hoping that there is for i would not want, after years of> > >
>>> constructivism, to link psychotis to brain development (kind of>
>>> > > gives too much ground back to biological determinism) but
>>> worth> > > finding out nevertheless.> > > > In that sense,
>>> logically, schizophrenia may be a brain disease, something> >
>>> uncomfortable.> > > > > charles, the url would not work so i am
>>> still in a state of> > > ignorance ( name ruth). however, your
>>> post sounds like you have> > > been doing thoughtful work which i
>>> would like to hear elaborated> > > more should you have the
>>> time.> > > > thanx charlie P. I think once a girl named melissa
>>> mentioned me the> > connection in spanish with what's his name,
>>> Rayuela...a Paris....Cortazar.> > > > > i have a bit of a
>>> practical dillema around the role of the> > > expert.> > > > mmm>
>>> > > > > i agree with what you say but, in practice, one is often>
>>> > > in dialogue with majoritarian discourse. for example, i'm
>>> also> > > involved in a service user training initiative-
>>> basically people> > > using or who have used mental health
>>> services meet with trainee> > > clinical psychologists once a
>>> month to answer questions about> > > training concerns from the
>>> context of service user perspectives.> > > > of course..> > > > >
>>> this all ran smoothly until it came to naming the role. the
>>> group> > > felt that their function was consultative so decided
>>> on> > > consultant which was rejected on the grounds that it
>>> implied> > > considerable professional training, skill and
>>> expertise.> > > > problem is then, in that case, where do you
>>> send them to,...Next, at the> > Office!> > > > > also> > > that
>>> the term had other connotations in the nhs ( that is don't> > >
>>> step on the toes of the doctors).> > > > agree> > > > > the group
>>> replied that anyone> > > who had self managed a psychotic episode
>>> also had considerable> > > skill and profesional experience-the
>>> group was made up of a maths> > > teacher a special needs teacher
>>> an ex social worker.> > > > OKayy..> > > > > whetherthey> > > had
>>> been 'professional' or not, they considered themselves the> > >
>>> experts of their own experience-> > > > Question of naming-
>>> identifying the source, where they get "experience" fromm> > > >
>>> > there are PR consultants and> > > other kinds of consultant.
>>> the group asked why they were being> > > required to use a name
>>> (advisor)> > > > mmm> > > > > that did not fit what they were> >
>>> > doing. anyhow, the choice came down to pulling out-then the
>>> work> > > would not be done at all or raising all this stuff in
>>> the project> > > evaluation. the group decided that they take
>>> this path. so> > > wouster-you are right to be cautious-there is
>>> a lot of work to do yet.> > > > piles of work in the academy> > >
>>> > > the point of all this? i support the group in so far as they
>>> need> > > a site of enunctiation in practices that have power
>>> over them.> > > moreover, i think there still needs to be room to
>>> acknowledge> > > what people can do. however, i work in the
>>> awareness that the> > > experts of their own experience could
>>> easily become as despotic> > > as any other kind of expert.
>>> resistance is not innocent in other> > > words. i find mysel in a
>>> continual negotation between making room> > > in majoritarian
>>> languages and contesting the egocentric premises> > > of this
>>> language.> > > > phhhwww, that s hard working keeping a
>>> household.> > > > > the focus on neologisms is the other side of
>>> this problem.> > > > for the youngsters indeed, but who isntit?>
>>> > > > > psychaitry defines psychosis as lacking in insight and
>>> out of> > > touch with reality.> > > > ok, thnx Ruth, I have here
>>> this book on my desk: by Guus Labooy: "Waar Geest> > is, is
>>> Vrijheid." to me the question to write an article in MGv.> >
>>> www.Trimbos.nl.> > > > > i don't think i need to bother with the
>>> real> > > on this list but lacking in insight clearly belongs to
>>> subjective> > > interiority. there is also the whole question of
>>> reflection and,> > > again, power. it is quite ok to have
>>> exstatic expereinces if one> > > is a theologian or a philosopher
>>> but not so for most other> > > subjectivities. people that
>>> expereince psychosis frequently> > > dialogue with their voices
>>> and often has a reflective dimension> > > that is comparable to
>>> but not the same as 'sane' reflection. this> > > is important
>>> because psychoanalysis often refuses to work with> > > people
>>> that experience psychosis. however, psychosis is as much> > > an
>>> attempt to make sense out of nonsense as is it is a flight> > >
>>> from dominant sense regimes.so been doing a lot of work on> > >
>>> idioysyncratic syntaxes of exteriority. its nothing big or very>
>>> > > clever-just trying to find a way of listening responsively
>>> to> > > expereinces that don't follow recognised conventions but
>>> usually> > > have some of their own. we've been thinking of this
>>> as a kind of> > > translation (with all the problems of [power
>>> and transposition> > > that go along with this).> > > > >
>>> Sloughing one's skin.-The snake that cannot slough its skin> > >
>>> perishes. Likewise spirits which are prevented from changing> > >
>>> their opinions; they cease to be spirits (Nietzsche: Daybreak:V:
>>> 573)> > > > wku, have a nice day> > > > > > > > > >
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