[D-G] beyond psychiatry

Harald Wenk hwenk at web.de
Wed Feb 22 01:33:00 PST 2006


to be against any ethic may sound good and would be good
if we all were hol(y)e, for there were no necessetity for it.
As you may know that Spinoza got a lot of trouble with the priest who  
hate(d) him
because they thought he denied ethic or more precise morals as they  
understood it.
Namely accompanied and build up on  bad consience and some kind of  
I think this is what you mean, a free mind stays to  his
deeds, what is also expressed by Spinoza and Nietzsche.

It is worth noting that both in a way thought this free view only for
a few people who freed themselves.
At a lot of people they stay in a conventional padagogical view.
So we have the root of he difference of the free mindred people andthe  
rest of the world, which
in my eyes is also not very full of advantages but cutting of the common  
I think to overcome this distinction and hold the free view was of very  
high value in
the left wing movement starting at the mid 60ies.
And it is of high value  still today.

Somehow even if one did something which was not right
in common eyes, and these common eyes are often also inside yourself,
there is some instance in you who found it right to do so
in that situation with the Knowledge, mood and circumstances at that  
specific time.
So it is good to ask: How came I about to do so, without kill oneself
but instead with free and loving eyes.
This is what is against the negative sides of morals, for this is some
ethic in itself and present in Spinozas ethic.

It is also present in other cultures:
Rabia, a femal sufi master from the old midddle ages had put it like this:
"First repent and then repent your repentence".

Now if you look at your thinking and deeds this way, hard failures even in
the common moralistic sense will seldom occcur.
To be good to oneself and keep oneself hole is a sort of staying and  
becoming fine,
for you don't have to abolish a part of you or avoid to look at it,
so that it can't be developed. Instead you come about to know more about  
you and maybe about
the others.

To put int in the way of being against ethic is a little bit unfortunarte,
for you struggle with a lot of people including yourself.
"And what if you wish to kill your partner"? "That should be right???"

So the versions of Spinoza and Rabia and mine "Keep your self hole" may be  
of more value and make
ethical live easier.

greetings Harald Wenk

Am Sun, 05 Feb 2006 16:14:19 -0500 schrieb maria-belen ordonez  
<mbelen at yorku.ca>:

> I think the best way to do psychiatry is to take a position of  
> anti-psychiatry.
> Similarly, the best way to be ethical is to be against ethics. Not that  
> I am
> situated in a place that can suggest whether such a position "works",  
> however,
> there is enough experiential evidence to suggest that any determined  
> discipline
> or area of knowledge, is always already from its conception, bound to  
> fail.
> Think of professions of social status: Doctors, Lawyers, Teachers--the  
> majority
> are doing the necessary work to maintain both a psycho-oppression and a
> corporeal one. Anti-Oedipus is a good start, a push not only to  
> re-invent--but
> to INVENT at all costs. Deleuze and Guattari (read through Negri and  
> Hardt)
> suggest that if you "don't fit", you should, rather than bemoaning the
> intensity of conflict, REALIZE YOUR GIFT. It is the gift of living,  
> loving and
> working against Oedipus.
> mb
> Quoting Julia Barclay <julia at flyingoutofsequence.org>:
>> I think read the soon to be published in English Guattari notes about
>> writing Anti-Oedipus and in general read Anti-Oedipus for the answer to  
>> some
>> of your original questions.  Keep writing about this, I think.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "nicholas lalvani" <nicholaslalvani at hotmail.com>
>> To: <deleuze-guattari at lists.driftline.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2006 6:42 PM
>> Subject: Re: [D-G] beyond psychiatry
>> >
>> >
>> > Help me Liza, with you're statement "you gotta invent by yurself  
>> away!" As
>> > for being mad and going to La Borde clinic, amusingly part of my role  
>> as a
>> > rebelious psychihatrist, buying patient's cigarettes's and a guitar so
>> > that
>> > we could we could sing our collective experiences, was vieved by my  
>> bosses
>> > as being sign of mental illness and after being dismissed I had to  
>> see 4
>> > psychiatrists before I was deemed fit to reutrn to work as a doctor.  
>> They
>> > fucked me good and proper for trying to fight on behelf of the  
>> patients.
>> > There would be no need for me to pretend to be mad, but I don't see
>> > anything
>> > salvedgeable in British psychiatry given the corruptness at the heart  
>> of
>> > it.
>> > An old friend of mine is now the dean of the Royal College of
>> > psychiatrists
>> > and when he heard I had been suspended, in part for taking patients  
>> out
>> > for
>> > a walk, buying them cigarettes, playing music etc he said to me "What  
>> the
>> > hell did you think you were doing, don't you know the patients are  
>> themost
>> > expendible objects in the system and you're the most next most  
>> expendible
>> > (I
>> > think he was reffering to Junior Doctors). Given that this is coming  
>> form
>> > the Dean of The Royal College, what hope can there be?
>> >
>> > I feel like publishing a play based on my experiences but I think  
>> there
>> > are
>> > only a few people who really care.
>> >
>> > So I think perhaps Delluzian dreams cradle my sorrow but Delluze  
>> surely
>> > isn't about sorrow?
>> >
>> > Nick
>> >
>> >
>> >>From: Liza Kozner <liza_kozner at yahoo.co.uk>
>> >>Reply-To: deleuze-guattari at lists.driftline.org
>> >>To: deleuze-guattari at lists.driftline.org
>> >>Subject: Re: [D-G] beyond psychiatry
>> >>Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2006 17:24:22 +0000 (GMT)
>> >>
>> >>don't get depressive.
>> >>   Isabelle holds loads of links
>> >>
>> >>    1) what you do brought good. I strongly recommend see Life is
>> >> Beautiful
>> >>by Capra 2 cure to melancholy and sense of the Tragic in experience  
>> (lived
>> >>by those strange Professorates Schizopfs) 2)Deleuze has no Systematic
>> >>Thinking. he only has becoming, he is unreachable. maybe he is  
>> uneffable,
>> >>de-proeminent.  there's no feelings they had which they did not  
>> reanalysed
>> >>in their writings. everything they said could be contradicted in a  
>> way by
>> >>one word in the Felix Guattari archives., to get to the point. they  
>> are
>> >>subjected by the readers. their point. so to be truthfullthy with  
>> point
>> >>theory, you gotta invent by yurself away..
>> >>
>> >>   Guattari was Psychoanalyser, and was very committed in his  
>> experience.
>> >>are you young. pretend to be mad go to La Borde where he studied with  
>> an
>> >>other Doctor. eat the chemicals and do 56 asylum and come back to the  
>> list
>> >>to publish it here.
>> >>
>> >>   Regds
>> >>   Lizza.:// /
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>nicholas lalvani <nicholaslalvani at hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>    I was extremely naive in entering psychiatry with the hope
>> >>of achieving anything which the "patients" mind find of value to their
>> >>lives.
>> >>
>> >>I would like to know if there is a good introduction to the work of  
>> D+G
>> >>which can lead on to further study and also what people's opinions  
>> are as
>> >>to
>> >>whether D+G feel there is anything worthwhile about thepursuit of
>> >>psychiatry
>> >>at all.
>> >>
>> >>Yours,
>> >>
>> >>Nick
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
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