[D-G] EU Macron: EU Sovereignty interview in The Economist

Johnatan Petterson internet.petterson at gmail.com
Mon Nov 11 16:47:46 PST 2019

ok, i understand EU Sovereignty can be shocking to a deleuzian reader from
the US perspective
as well if the day after Macron's declaration Pompeo showed destabilizing
signs against
Macron's leaning on Russia by threatening with Nato both China and Russia

(Russia said Macron's discourse was golden syrup)

i am not sure we would need to go into Levbvbre if this one is using
Kantian non representative categories and the likes

from my experience on the deleuze list i think the reader will oppose any
"Striatedness" with full swing from the american war machine to this attempt
from Macron to assert his vision IN France and IN europe mainly against the
followism of his German allies.

Macron is a "philosopher" who read Paul Ricoeur (a guy whom DG categorized
as a strong idealist in AO)
and he tries hard to avoid everything run amock: just imagine the left did
a "manifestation" against islamophobie
(defined by organizers as hatred against the muslims) at the same time the
whole planet tends to divide itself in more offensive
terminology between non affiliated and extreme right.

somehow Macron represents the sensible intelligentsia who doesn't want a
general fight or "chaos" and perhaps prefers Kant
over the mass delirium to come

i think there is some reason for an intellectual based in the US to take
interest to join a vision on sharing ideas on or
of Sovereignty who might who knows cross the Ocean
Toynbee talked about the Cities of Greece since long in alliances and
infightings and who later got reunited
under the Hellenic Roman (empire) Civilisation
same happened in China and Europe

but perhaps why not EU join USA
of course this takes time because EU is composed of more motley communal
fabric than US states and communities
so its just a matter of building something slowly century after century but
things go fast in a nomadic war machine
so mind-Vision can help

Sovereignty does not matter so much as non fragmentation of the mind:

who do you line up with in Paris: those who think that criticizing the
muslim veil is equal to "racism"
or those who want to throw them all to the ancient colonies

who talked about dis-crimination,
when the problem of 11 ex IS people stuck in Turkey coming back in EU cause
so much wonder ?

you cannot be detached, everyone has an opinion, only the philosopher is
the one who fights against
his or her own tendency @having "any"opinion this in order to first LEARN
her or his own Ideas Fabric.

now accomplished philosopher Macron is president, and later is ready to
Write (he communicated lately so)


Le mar. 12 nov. 2019 à 01:04, Mike Lansing <badger2 at mail2world.com> a
écrit :

> Problematic is the concept of sovereignty itself. For now, there are at
> least two excerptings that come to mind: Le Febvre's Deleuze and Law, and
> Haegglund's Radical Atheism. We may not have current access to the former,
> though once having had a personal copy.
> On Thu, 7 Nov, 2019 at 8:50 AM, Johnatan Petterson <
> internet.petterson at gmail.com> wrote:
> To: deleuze-guattari at lists.driftline.org
> The Economist went to China with Emmanuel Macron and he gave the interview
> which you can view here:
> https://www.economist.com/europe/2019/11/07/emmanuel-macron-in-his-own-words-english
> Summary of the Interview: Europe needs to be centralized a bit like the
> United States in Toqueville's book on Démocratie en Amérique The "grammar"
> of the world has loomed up away from the illusion of peace thru economic
> glamour after the fall of the Warsaw Pact and USSR something important:
> power and sovereignty in that light according to Macron Europe should focus
> on its Sovereignty that includes, centralized budget, investment spending
> on Defence and Technology and Macron link the growth of Europe to the
> development of Humanism and Democracy since Enlightenment (18thcentury) he
> finds that UK turned to a kind of "Singapour" model that shall benefit the
> Elites of UK, even though (paradoxical) if the Middle-Class are the ones
> who voted for Brexit Macron defends authorship creation as base of this
> humanism, and middle classes come related to this issue the fragmentation
> of the EU is not so much the economic operator factors but the trust in
> USA: most people saving are going to the Future of USA (Treasury Bunds) and
> Poland is fearing any discussion with Russia that would forshadow USA
> umbrella But yet Macron says that USA since Obama during Trump (now) and
> thus after Trump will grow more and more Pacific and ask of EU to look for
> itself (a bit the same is required from Israel) Macron sees EU role as
> balance of US power, which is the condition for good relation with
> neighbours (Africa, Middle-East Russia) thus a different diplomacy that the
> English speaking world, yet this imposes Sovereignty in the new "grammar" :
> to have a Central Brussels EU where States be working more like the
> Communities in USA: an internal re - articulation of the States roles with
> Brussels Institutions (Commission & Parliament) as Federal Union's Trump
> and USA will look to EU only as business and Nato as retrieval of money for
> USA, provided the ideology partnership between both continents withstand so
> that NATO has become obsolete in Macron's opinion it has "no brain" as
> shows Turkey recently going rogue in its South Border with Syria France has
> some good relation with Germany but Germany lags behind but is a trusted
> partner to France in the long run There are division west -east (migrant)
> and north south (economy) in EU that hit the middle classes morale, which
> poses the main threat for ease of governance in EU Macron's solution to
> this is Humanism that is "help to development health and education " both
> within EU border and with neighbours several extracts from the Interview
> now: <<The rise of radical political Islam is undoubtedly the foremost
> enemy of European humanist values, which are based on the free and rational
> individual, equality between women and men, and emancipation. The model of
> subjugation and domination today is that of radical political Islam. How do
> you fight this? You can say, when they resort to terrorism, I’ll fight
> them. The other way is by fostering democracy, by demonstrating that other
> models, including cultural, economic and social models, can emerge.>> §
> <<I’m in favour of making things more effective, deciding more quickly,
> more clearly, changing the dogma and ideology that drive us collectively
> today. >> § <<First of all, there’s a factor which we may have
> underestimated, which is the principle of the sovereignty of the people.
> And I think that the spread of values, of the humanism that we hold high,
> and the universalisation of these values in which I believe, only work to
> the extent that you are able to convince the people. We’ve sometimes made
> mistakes by wanting to impose our values, by changing regimes, without
> popular support. It’s what happened in Iraq or in Libya. It’s perhaps what
> was envisaged at one point in Syria but failed. It’s an element of the
> Western approach, I would say in generic terms, that was a mistake at the
> beginning of this century, undoubtedly fatal, and sprang from the union of
> two forces: the right to intervene with neo-conservatism. And these two
> forces intertwined and produced dramatic results. Because the sovereignty
> of the people is in my opinion an unsurpassable factor. It’s what made us
> what we are, and it must be respected everywhere. >> so if I get it right
> for Macron the main issue (as France is willing to intervene in Mali and
> Syria) to be addressed is the influence of Neo Conservatism, both in the US
> and in EU best regards Johnattan Petteron
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