[D-G] Mimesis & Simulacrum

Fri Feb 24 15:24:08 PST 2017

Was working with the French LOS in 1998 when it disappeared from the
shelves of Indiana University at Bloomington, never to return. Thus,
your Perpignan copy is rare to we prisoners here in the American
rhizome. There indeed should be more rigorous attempts at translating,
we can see them struggling in the French PTSD study we just posted.

To support Deleuze's passage below, the hunt would include the art that
is the frontispiece of Helen Waddell's The Wandering Scholars, likely
the 1934 edition, also a desaparecido from IU library. That frontispiece
coincides with what she says later on in the book: 'It is the
theologians but not the poets who divide the undivided Trinity in the
pot-houses of Paris. Urania and Nature cover their faces and worship
before the mystery of the triple-shafted fire.' Here the question of the
father helps to answer the ambiguity of the father-brother-sister
assemblage as being intersubstitutional. Waddell had a working knowledge
of Migne's Patrilogia Latina, which volumes took up an entire wall of
the Stanbrook Library. Baudrillard's passage in Paroxysm for simulation,
and LOS for '....malediction weighs heaviest on those false pretenders.'

<-----Original Message-----> 
>From: Johnatan Petterson [internet.petterson at gmail.com]
>Sent: 2/24/2017 12:30:43 PM
>To: deleuze-guattari at lists.driftline.org
>Subject: Re: [D-G] Mimesis & Simulacrum
>
>Hy. Still here in the Perpignan's Municipal Library.
>I managed to get you a hold on a french copy of LOS.
>Here follows required original (my very own off -the -cuff transl.)
>
>Gilles Deleuze, Logique du Sens, 1969
>Les Editions de Minuit. (Appendice p.295)
>
>"Nous partions d'une première détermination du motif platonicien :
>distinguer l'essence de l'apparence, l'intelligible
>du sensible, l'Idée et l'image, l'original
>et la copie, le modèle et le simulacre.
>Mais nous voyons déjà que ces expressions ne se valent pas.
>La distinction se déplace entre deux sortes d'images.
>Les _copies_ sont possesseurs en second,
>prétendants bien fondés, garantis par la ressemblance ;
>les _simulacres_ sont comme les faux prétendants,
>construits sur une dissimilitude,
>impliquant une perversion, un détournement essentiels.
>C'est en ce sens que Platon divise en deux le domaine des
>images-idoles:
>d'une part les _copies-icônes_,
>d'autre part les _simulacres-phantasmes_.(@)"
>
>((((((( - We started from a first determination in the platonician
>motive:
>to distinguish between the essence and the appearance,
>the intellegible and the sensible, the Idea and the image,
>the original and the copy, the model
>and the simulacrum.
>Yet we see how these expressions are no match to each other:
>The distinction displaces itself between two kinds of images.
>The _copies_ are owners in a second degree,
>well founded pretenders, warranted by similitude;
>whereas the simulacra are like false pretenders,
>built upon a dissimilitude,
>implying an essential perversion, an essential deviation.
>In this sense it is, that Plato divides in two the realm, the
idols-images:
>one one side, the _icons-copies_,
>on the other the _simulacra-phantasmata_.(@) )))))))))))))))
>
>
>
>
>(@)Deleuze's ref.note to Plato's The Sophist, 263b, 264 c.
>
>
>
>so, for yur ref. 266 e. _The Sophist_ Plato: as well here:
>~(french.transl.Nestor L.Cordero)-
>#
>"L'ETRANGER
>
>Rappelons que, si l'on devait montrer que ce qui
>est faux est réellement faux et qu'il est devenu ainsi un être
>parmi les êtres
>, il fallait prouver que,
>dans la technique de production d'images, il y avait deux genres :
>celui des copies et celui des illusions.
>
>
>((( Let it be reminded: were we to demonstrate that what stands false
>is really false et that because of that it became a being amongst the
other
>beings,
>we should provide evidence that, in the techne of images production,
there
>are two kinds:
>the one of the copies, the one of the illusions ))))))))))))
>
>THEETETE
>
>C'était ainsi.
>
>
>(((( Let it be so . ))))
>
>L'ETRANGER
>
>Nous l'avons montré donc.
>Et, par suite, ne sera-t-il pas incontournable de compter ces
>genres, réellement, comme deux?
>
>
>(((((So did we shew. And, follows, these kinds are in reality, numbered
>two: ))))))
>
>
>THEETETE
>
>Oui.
>
>L'ETRANGER
>
>Divisons donc à son tour le genre des illusions, en deux.
>
>THEETETE
>
>Comment?
>
>L'ETRANGER
>
>D'une part, il y a celles qui sont produites par des instruments ;
>d'autre part, il y a celles dont l'instrument est la
>personne elle-même qui produit l'illusion."
>
>(((((( (How?) says The Stanger:' On one side those
>produced by instruments ;
>on the other, those whose instrument is the human being producing the
>illusion '))))))))))))
>
>#
>--
>Now let's get further back to LOS Deleuze Ed de Minuit.1969:
>Appendice pp297-298:
>
>"Soit la grande trinité platonicienne :
>l'usager, le producteur, l'imitateur. Si l'usager est en haut de
>la hiérarchie, c'est parce qu'il juge des fins, et dispose d'un
véritable
>_savoir_ qui est
>celui du modèle ou de l'Idée. La copie pourrait
>être dite une imitation dans la mesure où elle reproduit le modèle;
>pourtant, comme cette imitation est noétique, spirituelle et
intérieure,
>elle
>est une véritable production qui se règle sur les relations et
proportions
>constitutives de l'essence. Il y a toujours une
>opération productrice dans la bonne copie et,
>pour correspondre à cette opération, une _opinion droite_ sinon un
savoir.
>Nous voyons donc que l'imitation est déterminée à prendre
>un sens péjoratif pour autant
>qu'elle n'est plus qu'une simulation,
>qu'elle ne s'applique qu'au simulacre et désigne
>l'effet de ressemblance seulement extérieur et improductif,
>obtenu par ruse ou subversion. Il n'y a même plus là
>d'opinion droite, mais une sorte de rencontre ironique
>qui tient lieu de mode de connaissance,
>un art de rencontre hors du savoir et de l'opinion. (@@)"
>
>(@@): ref.note by Deleuze's to : Plato's- République, X, 602 a. and:
>Sophiste, 268 a.
>
>(((((( Given, the famous platonician Ttinity:
>the user, the producer, the imitator.
>If the user stands at the top of the hierarchy, it is because she
judges of
>the ends,
>and holds at her disposition of a true _knowledge_ which is the model
or
>the Idea.
>the copy could be said a mimesis in this measure that it reproduces the
>model;
>nevertheless, as this mimesis is noetic, spiritual and interior,,
>it is truely a production anchored onto relations and proportions
>constituting the essence.
>There always is a productive operation in the right copy and,
>in order to match this operation, a _right opinion_ if not a
knowledge..
>We thus observe how mimesis is determined to be given a pejorative
meaning
>in as much case it be nothing else than a simulation,
>that it apply itself only to the simulacrum and designates
>the effect of a solely exterior and unproductive similitude,
>obtained by ruse (trick) and subversion.
>There, is none right opinion, yet a sort of a sly encounter,
>which stands as a modus cognoscendi, an art of encounter outside
>knowledge and opinion. ))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
>
>
>
>
>--->::::
>
>
>in my opinion, thus, we see how the chemical process of
>PhotoGraphy has changed the given
>in the arts of mimesis, it is like a "black box" described by Bruno
Latour
>in "La Science en Action",
>enabling us to shun the right_opinion operation.
> the noetic mimesis Deleuze is alluding to in Plato's times.
>this noetic operation has been substituted by the techne of
photography,
>and the other techne of similitudes by
>"black boxes". in my opinion, hence the role asigned by Deleuze to
>photography in his book on Francis Bacon, and in LOS
>his development on simulacrum as supra.
>Deleuze is portrayed currently by accademia in Paris often as a
>anti-phenomenologist.
>Because of political turn of discussion regarding Phenomenology in DG
in
>WIP?
>Yet i see him as only deepening a phenomenologist
>stand which can be seen for example in Jean-Louis Déotte, L'Epoque des
>Appareils (Edition Lignes et Manifestes 2004)-
>
>So, My Wonder: if Plato is inspired by the complexion of socius in his
time,
>how was this socius, etc.
>
>Regards,
>Johnatan P.
>_______________________________________________
>List address: deleuze-guattari at driftline.org
>Info:
http://lists.driftline.org/listinfo.cgi/deleuze-guattari-driftline.org
>Archives: www.driftline.org 

<span id=m2wTl><p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2" style="font-size:13.5px">_______________________________________________________________<BR>Get the Free email that has everyone talking at <a href=http://www.mail2world.com target=new>http://www.mail2world.com</a><br>  <font color=#999999>Unlimited Email Storage – POP3 – Calendar – SMS – Translator – Much More!</font></font></span>