[D-G] On Schizophrenia

Thu Jan 13 20:11:03 PST 2011

:) I know you never said it was easy...The way I see it is that to live in
society as a 'functioning' member takes a certain degree of irrationality,
at least in Western society.  I am well aware of the connections between
'symptoms' of schizophrenia and shamanism, Hindu mysticism, etc.  and even
being able to channel persectory affects in a particular manner, but to be
able to do this one must have a certain degree of faith in the social
network that 'decides' that the avenue that you are taking or the symptoms
that you are exhibiting *belong *to that network - are valuable for that
network and valuable only for that particular part of that network. In my
particular experience (and maybe my experience was extreme) that level of
irrational control did not exhibit itself.  I could not argue with logic
because she could always come up with a better argument to justify her
system.  When using irrational beliefs like love and adding assumed
information like, 'I was at school, I left for school therefore I've must
have been there all day' didn't work.  Logically there are so many problems
with that statement and she saw them all.  Anyways I'm rambling...obviously
my experience is different than yours and I will repeat there are many
schizophrenics who do manage to work within the social system and you're
right that isn't portrayed enough.  Although at the same time I definitely
don't think that the schizophrenics that manage to adapt to their society is
what Deleuze is getting at by using that imagery, but I of course could be
wrong and I see the Eternal Return as extremely rational.  Anyways, probably
just a difference of perspective.  Take care.

On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 5:52 AM, Super Dragon <superdragon at addlebrain.com>wrote:

> Hi both, I never said it was easy to live with either as a person who
> experiences psychosis or as a relative. However, positive experiences and
> attributes are more common than you think. I am one of these 'violent
> nutters' and tend to channel my persectory affects into chopping up dead
> texts and reaassembling their parts...
>
> On the question of shamanism-not my cup of tea but I know people with a
> diagnosis of schizophrenia that take their voices as guides into their art
> to great effect. Also in Hindu mysticism some of the 'symptoms' of psychosis
> can be equally regarded as aspects of encounter/immersion in nondual reality
> which aligns strongly with encounter with Eternal Return, the throwing of
> self outside the self off the rational calender.  (I)violent nutter can at
> least claim some encounter here as I (reconsitituted) know there is nothing
> to be said of desubjectification...
>
> My research scientist colleague is really interesting as on the one hand
> she believes uncritically in the given subject of empirical enquiry and on
> the other beleives (again uncritically) in the wholly unverifiable voices
> that guide her life. Curioser and curioser said Alice
>
> Sloughing one's skin.-The snake that cannot slough its skin perishes.
> Likewise spirits which are prevented from changing their opinions; they
> cease to be spirits (Nietzsche: Daybreak:V:573)
>
>
> --- teresa.mayne at gmail.com wrote:
>
> From: Teresa Mayne <teresa.mayne at gmail.com>
> To: deleuze-guattari at lists.driftline.org
> Subject: Re: [D-G] On Schizophrenia
> Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2011 19:06:18 -0500
>
> I'm sorry that I couldn't resist putting my two-sense in this discussion.
> Super Dragon while I think that your experience with you colleague is
> wonderful, I don't think it is all that common.  My mother was
> schizophrenic and she was the most rational person that I have to this day
> ever known, but that rationality seemed to be a curse.  Newspapers were
> plastered on every wall with chunks highlighted; there were never ending
> questions on everything you could imagine and it wouldn't matter what the
> responses were, they got weaved into her paranoia. While she was on
> occasion
> violent, I think now that I had time to reflect on it, it was out of
> frustration - frustration that she had no rest, frustration that she was
> surrounded by clones that only had the faces of her kidnapped children.
>  She
> was an artist, she loved ancient greek literature and she at times could be
> very warm.  Anyways that is not from the DSM - that is from life.  While I
> do think that the positive qualities of schizophrenia are extremely
> valuable, I would not wish that life on my worst enemy.
>
> --Tree
>
> On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 6:37 PM, Julia Barclay <
> julia.barclay at googlemail.com
> > wrote:
>
> > Your friend's experience as a scientist is interesting.  Do you think
> > there's a relationship with so-called schizophrenia and shamanism?  I ask
> > because I have a friend who has not been diagnosed as schizophrenic but
> does
> > work with 'guides' in her work as a modern-day shaman.  Just wondering as
> it
> > seems possible, yes?
> > So much of how we see all this stuff is socially constructed and I fear
> we
> > are way too in thrall with the medical model these days.
> >
> > Always love to hear your comments super dragon.
> >
> > On 12 Jan 2011, at 18:14, Super Dragon wrote:
> >
> > > The statistical case is that a person with a diagnosis of schizophrenia
> (
> > whatever that actually means today as the DSM keeps shifting) is more
> likely
> > to be a victim of violence or hurt themselves than be the perpetrator. It
> is
> > also the case that one only usually hears about people with a diagnosis
> of
> > schizophrenia when they are involved in violence against others thus
> > perpetuating the hyperbole.  I have never seen a report saying person
> with
> > diagnosis of schizophrenia did anything positive. Also not all delusions
> are
> > persecutory or about harm. They have been known to give helpful advice.
> One
> > of my colleagues regularly acts on her voices and she's now a high flying
> > research scientist.
> > >
> > > Sloughing one's skin.-The snake that cannot slough its skin perishes.
> > Likewise spirits which are prevented from changing their opinions; they
> > cease to be spirits (Nietzsche: Daybreak:V:573)
> > >
> > >
> > > --- l.ogrady at gmail.com wrote:
> > >
> > > From: Louie <l.ogrady at gmail.com>
> > > To: deleuze-guattari at lists.driftline.org
> > > Subject: Re: [D-G] On Schizophrenia
> > > Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2010 10:41:36 +0000
> > >
> > > journal abstract:
> > >
> > > 'Some people hear voices that are the products only of processes in
> > > their brains. These hallucinations can lead to persistent delusions
> > > that someone is plotting against them or urging them to harm others.
> > > When a person acts on those delusions, headline-grabbing tragedy can
> > > ensue, usually involving someone close to the protagonist.'
> > >
> > > ...I think I'll pass.
> > >
> > > On 07/12/2010, charles hubaker <solntsepyati at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > >> Nature (11 Nov 2010) devotes a large portion of the issue to the
> subject
> > of
> > >> schizophrenia.
> > >>
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