[D-G] On Schizophrenia

Julia Barclay julia.barclay at googlemail.com
Thu Jan 13 08:02:10 PST 2011


To clarify shamanism is something, in the modern context shifted out of its cultural place, I am somewhat skeptical of as well - for a variety of experiential and intellectual reasons, but I do wonder how phenomena that existed in another cultural context morph into the contemporary as pathological.  I'm working on some new theatre work with my company Apocryphal Theatre in relation to William James' 'Varieties of Religious Experience' which is extraordinarily prescient for lectures given in 1901-2 in its humility on the one hand and attempt to grasp spirituality as a psychological phenomenon on the other.  

I have friends who have had schizophrenia diagnosed and do not say any of what I do lightly.  I just think we have to be careful about pathologizing a whole range of experience, as that may in fact induce the paranoia itself associated with them.  D&G are quite clear that schizophrenia as a 'disease' is isolating and sad but also look for other ways of interpreting what may be called symptoms of a disease in a different frame.  This is not to be dismissive of the pain and suffering of those who are isolated or even worse to romanticize it, but to be clear that we are not demonizing a different level of perception as if it had no value whatsoever.

I am no expert in any of this but I am an expert in living in a culture that wants to over-pathologize all difference and medicate any manifestation of 'aberrant' behavior, even if that means grieving 'too long' after the loss of a loved one.  This too is insanity of an insidious kind.

On 13 Jan 2011, at 10:52, Super Dragon wrote:

> Hi both, I never said it was easy to live with either as a person who experiences psychosis or as a relative. However, positive experiences and attributes are more common than you think. I am one of these 'violent nutters' and tend to channel my persectory affects into chopping up dead texts and reaassembling their parts...
> 
> On the question of shamanism-not my cup of tea but I know people with a diagnosis of schizophrenia that take their voices as guides into their art to great effect. Also in Hindu mysticism some of the 'symptoms' of psychosis can be equally regarded as aspects of encounter/immersion in nondual reality which aligns strongly with encounter with Eternal Return, the throwing of self outside the self off the rational calender.  (I)violent nutter can at least claim some encounter here as I (reconsitituted) know there is nothing to be said of desubjectification...
> 
> My research scientist colleague is really interesting as on the one hand she believes uncritically in the given subject of empirical enquiry and on the other beleives (again uncritically) in the wholly unverifiable voices that guide her life. Curioser and curioser said Alice
> 
> Sloughing one's skin.-The snake that cannot slough its skin perishes. Likewise spirits which are prevented from changing their opinions; they cease to be spirits (Nietzsche: Daybreak:V:573)   
> 
> 
> --- teresa.mayne at gmail.com wrote:
> 
> From: Teresa Mayne <teresa.mayne at gmail.com>
> To: deleuze-guattari at lists.driftline.org
> Subject: Re: [D-G] On Schizophrenia
> Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2011 19:06:18 -0500
> 
> I'm sorry that I couldn't resist putting my two-sense in this discussion.
> Super Dragon while I think that your experience with you colleague is
> wonderful, I don't think it is all that common.  My mother was
> schizophrenic and she was the most rational person that I have to this day
> ever known, but that rationality seemed to be a curse.  Newspapers were
> plastered on every wall with chunks highlighted; there were never ending
> questions on everything you could imagine and it wouldn't matter what the
> responses were, they got weaved into her paranoia. While she was on occasion
> violent, I think now that I had time to reflect on it, it was out of
> frustration - frustration that she had no rest, frustration that she was
> surrounded by clones that only had the faces of her kidnapped children.  She
> was an artist, she loved ancient greek literature and she at times could be
> very warm.  Anyways that is not from the DSM - that is from life.  While I
> do think that the positive qualities of schizophrenia are extremely
> valuable, I would not wish that life on my worst enemy.
> 
> --Tree
> 
> On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 6:37 PM, Julia Barclay <julia.barclay at googlemail.com
>> wrote:
> 
>> Your friend's experience as a scientist is interesting.  Do you think
>> there's a relationship with so-called schizophrenia and shamanism?  I ask
>> because I have a friend who has not been diagnosed as schizophrenic but does
>> work with 'guides' in her work as a modern-day shaman.  Just wondering as it
>> seems possible, yes?
>> So much of how we see all this stuff is socially constructed and I fear we
>> are way too in thrall with the medical model these days.
>> 
>> Always love to hear your comments super dragon.
>> 
>> On 12 Jan 2011, at 18:14, Super Dragon wrote:
>> 
>>> The statistical case is that a person with a diagnosis of schizophrenia (
>> whatever that actually means today as the DSM keeps shifting) is more likely
>> to be a victim of violence or hurt themselves than be the perpetrator. It is
>> also the case that one only usually hears about people with a diagnosis of
>> schizophrenia when they are involved in violence against others thus
>> perpetuating the hyperbole.  I have never seen a report saying person with
>> diagnosis of schizophrenia did anything positive. Also not all delusions are
>> persecutory or about harm. They have been known to give helpful advice. One
>> of my colleagues regularly acts on her voices and she's now a high flying
>> research scientist.
>>> 
>>> Sloughing one's skin.-The snake that cannot slough its skin perishes.
>> Likewise spirits which are prevented from changing their opinions; they
>> cease to be spirits (Nietzsche: Daybreak:V:573)
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --- l.ogrady at gmail.com wrote:
>>> 
>>> From: Louie <l.ogrady at gmail.com>
>>> To: deleuze-guattari at lists.driftline.org
>>> Subject: Re: [D-G] On Schizophrenia
>>> Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2010 10:41:36 +0000
>>> 
>>> journal abstract:
>>> 
>>> 'Some people hear voices that are the products only of processes in
>>> their brains. These hallucinations can lead to persistent delusions
>>> that someone is plotting against them or urging them to harm others.
>>> When a person acts on those delusions, headline-grabbing tragedy can
>>> ensue, usually involving someone close to the protagonist.'
>>> 
>>> ...I think I'll pass.
>>> 
>>> On 07/12/2010, charles hubaker <solntsepyati at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> Nature (11 Nov 2010) devotes a large portion of the issue to the subject
>> of
>>>> schizophrenia.
>>>> 
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