[D-G] Deleuze-Guattari Digest, Vol 71, Issue 5

Harald Wenk hwenk at web.de
Sat Jan 15 05:02:46 PST 2011


I like to mention,
that  the "eternal return" is really rational,
namely taken from rational mechanics, quantum mechnics,
especially the theory of free gazes,
which is taken from Boltzmann, who unfornutaley committed suicide because
of unbearable headaches.
As atomissm is well established,  especially thermodynamics,
though the theroies ym be mad even more finer,
Deleuze is much more well founded in natural science,
as it is commonly suspected.

This ist an outcome of the "molecular revolution" of Guattari,
where atomism and field theory is taken together with biology,
leading to a "bottom up" approach from molecuels
or even finer of the brain, neurology and sens,
meaning, desire.
Thefore Deleuze speaks of "chemical proofs" in the Niezsche book for
example, building up the  "will", and "What wills in the will",
from chemical interactions seen as subordiantion or not for example.

For short. Things that are "stable", during more than an few seconds,
have to have build in some "eternal return" in the sense
that there is an repeating, autopoetic process generating them.
Molecules, and the homogenization processes, of fields, are very fast in 
general,
while diffussion dissolves.
As there is far fom equilibrium thermodynamics is going in, Stengers and 
Priogrin are
used,
every thing, the molecuels and states of the fields,
may change in the repeating process, substituted.
So, in a way "the repetition" alone ramains "invariant" for the constitution 
of the "thing".
That is a key ingedient of "mechanics", the Meconsphere.
This is only a "glimpse".



SHIZOPHRENIA AND NETWORK

Schizopehrenia is almost defined  as
"Lacking of unity" of mind,
to much disparaty and to less coherence.

You are perfectly right in pointing out, that it is
very difficult ro build up  a  "coherence only alone",
as you are in  a netrwork and interacting.

Therefore a lot of techniques of building
up a lot of social techniques of buildung up
"choherences in seclusions", with a culture behind it
is a great part of the culturual development of humanity.
One of the most popular and, to be clear curt, the one empahized as the best
by Deleuze and Guattari,
is yoga.
Odf course the "problems" or their ancestors, nowadys handeled in psychiatry 
and in psychology were treated there too.
You know that Foucault analyzed the practices in monastries.


The monastry culture is also very developped in the middle eastern world,
wjhic has partly  ovetaken yoga ingredients.

Yoga is  an outcome of the tantra and shamanistic practices from stone age 
and even earlier. In the anti-oddipe schamanism ist handled too.

For our discussion, the dissertation and  book of Mrs. Anne Winestone
"Avatar Bodies, A new Tantra for posthumsnism" maybe relevent here,
with a very explicite Deleuzian touch.

You know, that there "celebacy", that are practices alone,
stages and tendecies described in the anti-oedipe in (so called) 
"schizophrenia".
I think, very often, the "unfittness" of the social network is a real 
problem.
Namely, to deliver the person to the professional psychiatric dispositiv in 
some way.

Here Guattari gave warnings of the social psychiatry, which occurs as 
"antipsychiatry" in some countries.

I suspect, that a clinical definition is much to much often  given nowadys -
Guattari was a psychiatrist himself - if there should be any.

For a "coherence", the theory of Deleuze and  Guattari themselves is of 
course very helpful.

Here, I like to emphazizes the "neureological" point of view as very 
essential key.

"They don't will let you make your experiments in your corner" (Thousand 
Plateau)
is the more realistc coming in of undemanded "networks"
in your process of subjetivation.
Especially the social technology and dispositives from the state and the 
churches.


I am not aware, wherefrom the discussion is motivated, but that maybe not so 
important.


greetings

Harald Wenk


--------------------------------------------------
From: <deleuze-guattari-request at lists.driftline.org>
Sent: Friday, January 14, 2011 10:02 PM
To: <deleuze-guattari at lists.driftline.org>
Subject: Deleuze-Guattari Digest, Vol 71, Issue 5

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> Today's Topics:
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>   1. Re:  On Schizophrenia (Teresa Mayne)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2011 23:11:03 -0500
> From: Teresa Mayne <teresa.mayne at gmail.com>
> To: deleuze-guattari at lists.driftline.org
> Subject: Re: [D-G] On Schizophrenia
> Message-ID:
> <AANLkTi=vwwizy8YKwqmb0V-PCuA2kvkWmUqJfVC0wEZc at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> :) I know you never said it was easy...The way I see it is that to live in
> society as a 'functioning' member takes a certain degree of irrationality,
> at least in Western society.  I am well aware of the connections between
> 'symptoms' of schizophrenia and shamanism, Hindu mysticism, etc.  and even
> being able to channel persectory affects in a particular manner, but to be
> able to do this one must have a certain degree of faith in the social
> network that 'decides' that the avenue that you are taking or the symptoms
> that you are exhibiting *belong *to that network - are valuable for that
> network and valuable only for that particular part of that network. In my
> particular experience (and maybe my experience was extreme) that level of
> irrational control did not exhibit itself.  I could not argue with logic
> because she could always come up with a better argument to justify her
> system.  When using irrational beliefs like love and adding assumed
> information like, 'I was at school, I left for school therefore I've must
> have been there all day' didn't work.  Logically there are so many
> problems
> with that statement and she saw them all.  Anyways I'm
> rambling...obviously
> my experience is different than yours and I will repeat there are many
> schizophrenics who do manage to work within the social system and you're
> right that isn't portrayed enough.  Although at the same time I definitely
> don't think that the schizophrenics that manage to adapt to their society
> is
> what Deleuze is getting at by using that imagery, but I of course could be
> wrong and I see the Eternal Return as extremely rational.  Anyways,
> probably
> just a difference of perspective.  Take care.
>
> On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 5:52 AM, Super Dragon
> <superdragon at addlebrain.com>wrote:
>
>> Hi both, I never said it was easy to live with either as a person who
>> experiences psychosis or as a relative. However, positive experiences and
>> attributes are more common than you think. I am one of these 'violent
>> nutters' and tend to channel my persectory affects into chopping up dead
>> texts and reaassembling their parts...
>>
>> On the question of shamanism-not my cup of tea but I know people with a
>> diagnosis of schizophrenia that take their voices as guides into their
>> art
>> to great effect. Also in Hindu mysticism some of the 'symptoms' of
>> psychosis
>> can be equally regarded as aspects of encounter/immersion in nondual
>> reality
>> which aligns strongly with encounter with Eternal Return, the throwing of
>> self outside the self off the rational calender.  (I)violent nutter can
>> at
>> least claim some encounter here as I (reconsitituted) know there is
>> nothing
>> to be said of desubjectification...
>>
>> My research scientist colleague is really interesting as on the one hand
>> she believes uncritically in the given subject of empirical enquiry and
>> on
>> the other beleives (again uncritically) in the wholly unverifiable voices
>> that guide her life. Curioser and curioser said Alice
>>
>> Sloughing one's skin.-The snake that cannot slough its skin perishes.
>> Likewise spirits which are prevented from changing their opinions; they
>> cease to be spirits (Nietzsche: Daybreak:V:573)
>>
>>
>> --- teresa.mayne at gmail.com wrote:
>>
>> From: Teresa Mayne <teresa.mayne at gmail.com>
>> To: deleuze-guattari at lists.driftline.org
>> Subject: Re: [D-G] On Schizophrenia
>> Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2011 19:06:18 -0500
>>
>> I'm sorry that I couldn't resist putting my two-sense in this discussion.
>> Super Dragon while I think that your experience with you colleague is
>> wonderful, I don't think it is all that common.  My mother was
>> schizophrenic and she was the most rational person that I have to this
>> day
>> ever known, but that rationality seemed to be a curse.  Newspapers were
>> plastered on every wall with chunks highlighted; there were never ending
>> questions on everything you could imagine and it wouldn't matter what the
>> responses were, they got weaved into her paranoia. While she was on
>> occasion
>> violent, I think now that I had time to reflect on it, it was out of
>> frustration - frustration that she had no rest, frustration that she was
>> surrounded by clones that only had the faces of her kidnapped children.
>>  She
>> was an artist, she loved ancient greek literature and she at times could
>> be
>> very warm.  Anyways that is not from the DSM - that is from life.  While
>> I
>> do think that the positive qualities of schizophrenia are extremely
>> valuable, I would not wish that life on my worst enemy.
>>
>> --Tree
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 6:37 PM, Julia Barclay <
>> julia.barclay at googlemail.com
>> > wrote:
>>
>> > Your friend's experience as a scientist is interesting.  Do you think
>> > there's a relationship with so-called schizophrenia and shamanism?  I
>> > ask
>> > because I have a friend who has not been diagnosed as schizophrenic but
>> does
>> > work with 'guides' in her work as a modern-day shaman.  Just wondering
>> > as
>> it
>> > seems possible, yes?
>> > So much of how we see all this stuff is socially constructed and I fear
>> we
>> > are way too in thrall with the medical model these days.
>> >
>> > Always love to hear your comments super dragon.
>> >
>> > On 12 Jan 2011, at 18:14, Super Dragon wrote:
>> >
>> > > The statistical case is that a person with a diagnosis of
>> > > schizophrenia
>> (
>> > whatever that actually means today as the DSM keeps shifting) is more
>> likely
>> > to be a victim of violence or hurt themselves than be the perpetrator.
>> > It
>> is
>> > also the case that one only usually hears about people with a diagnosis
>> of
>> > schizophrenia when they are involved in violence against others thus
>> > perpetuating the hyperbole.  I have never seen a report saying person
>> with
>> > diagnosis of schizophrenia did anything positive. Also not all
>> > delusions
>> are
>> > persecutory or about harm. They have been known to give helpful advice.
>> One
>> > of my colleagues regularly acts on her voices and she's now a high
>> > flying
>> > research scientist.
>> > >
>> > > Sloughing one's skin.-The snake that cannot slough its skin perishes.
>> > Likewise spirits which are prevented from changing their opinions; they
>> > cease to be spirits (Nietzsche: Daybreak:V:573)
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > --- l.ogrady at gmail.com wrote:
>> > >
>> > > From: Louie <l.ogrady at gmail.com>
>> > > To: deleuze-guattari at lists.driftline.org
>> > > Subject: Re: [D-G] On Schizophrenia
>> > > Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2010 10:41:36 +0000
>> > >
>> > > journal abstract:
>> > >
>> > > 'Some people hear voices that are the products only of processes in
>> > > their brains. These hallucinations can lead to persistent delusions
>> > > that someone is plotting against them or urging them to harm others.
>> > > When a person acts on those delusions, headline-grabbing tragedy can
>> > > ensue, usually involving someone close to the protagonist.'
>> > >
>> > > ...I think I'll pass.
>> > >
>> > > On 07/12/2010, charles hubaker <solntsepyati at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> > >> Nature (11 Nov 2010) devotes a large portion of the issue to the
>> subject
>> > of
>> > >> schizophrenia.
>> > >>
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