[D-G] Mystic, psychosis, , "Normopaths" (from Guattaris de la borde)

hwenk hwenk at web.de
Fri Jan 23 08:29:25 PST 2009

Dear Wouter,

I thought, the purpuse to refer to the article was
to give some orientation in criteria, which are "generally accepted".
People are often very very uninformed and helpless
 and without any kind of knowledge, what a "symptom" or not is or not.
Being unconcentrated after two days of poor sleeping because of
some excitement, stress or long parties is quite natural, for example.
The incredible lowering of thresholds to consult a psychiatrists
and staying a psyhiatric patient is blamed by Guattari too as
to easy gratifying.

As I mentioned earlier, for example monastry practice of being forty days 
sleep by free will and as a technique of freeing brainpotentals,
stabilze new circuits   and regulize and enhsance neurotransmitter 
production, is real professional handling.
Krya and Kundalini practices done seriously, regular and
well informed and trained are another wellfounded professional system.
This has been done very often.
So, if neurologist and
psychiatrist are tryinng to cry: "Stop" it is a kind hypocrisis.
The  run of a possible lifelong medical drug psychiatric patient career
is no "real alternative" but the reality dominating one
on western countries.

Lacan has learned by the neurolgist Henry Ey and in his writings
neurology of the brain is very present.
He is very hard to read for non-specialists, as he likes to
emphasize more what  he calls "psychic causality" and "psychic matter"
and plays with words in a very symbolic manner.

The refrence to the neurology of the brain and the body  and its
organic or natural, biological, neurolgivcal drive
actions and strucures are often hidden in that symbols.

I like to show this for the common symbolc notion:
"the law of his heart"
Now, the bodily organ heart runs the whole day and night with some pulses.
The regulation of the heart and its pulse is part of the unconciuos "Id".
But in the brain, the structuring by this very regular activity with its 
consequrnces on
nurturing of all cells because of the blood pressure "Structures" other
parts of the brain. Fears by adrenalin come up, if the function of
the heart is quoestined. The other way round, fear disturbs the heart pulse.
Now, the symbolic meaning means a law, where the feelings and affects of
the individual is very much connected to.
This is bound to be very near connected, as it structures
the brain activity through it usual and ubiquitare
bein vivid in th brain. So, by everday practice, the association becomes 
"real symbolic":
One is being attacable in the real heart by words or actions not
directed against the body directly in a coarse sense.

Here  Guattari speaks of "The organs being fixed at the Body without organ 
like the medals on the dress of a fecer".

No need to mention, that a deep and regular
yoga practice stabilzing the heart function and the blood circuit system
has this very stabilzing effect on the neorology of the brain, the Id, the 

This "psychic matter" is  as best understood by a body-mind unit,
at best from Spinoza - which is the "same" as in Vedanta/Samkhya/Yoga unit.
This has been done especially by Guattri, whose
"molecular revolution" emphasizes the biochemical
neurology in the teaching of the unconciousness.
So, he is a more consequent pupil of Lacan,
being a member of his school until its dissolution in 1980.

The signifikat of notion of the "phanomenological phase"
of psychiatry  going back to Jaspers is from Guattari himself.
But Jaspers, after writing his "Psychopatholgy" turned to
existential philospophy - a variant of philosophical
phaenomomlogy, as mentioned earlier.
In France, "coining" even Guattri,
 most prominent represented by Sartre and Merleau-Ponty.
Lacan is the "structuralist" view, while Guattri is is the
"poststructuralist" one.

The tendeny to lower the threshold for a pathologization in medical
dignosis is general and a bit catastrophic.
The "stress" of the very crowded planet induces it too.

Unfortunately the use of Yoga more or less as some soft gymnastiques in
the mass cases hides the healing potential and development potential if
it is made seriously - that means every day at least five days a week.

Real psychosis is very hard to overcome, but this is due even to
little effective thearapies - namely those using medical drugs .

There are images driven by a lot of fear, if so, something
unusual  is happening in the brain.
Instead headaches are very oft treated by pills without any further
Here an  "ecology of the mind" as in the ecological phase of the late
and inaugurated by the "double bind" finder Bateson,
almost prohibits neuroleptica and other psychogene drugs

greetings Harald

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Wouter Kusters" <wku at ziggo.nl>
To: <deleuze-guattari at lists.driftline.org>
Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 2:30 AM
Subject: Re: [D-G] Mystic, psychosis, ,"Normopaths" (from Guattaris de la

> Hello everybody,
>> This article tries to seperate psychosis from mystical experience.
> To separate AND to connect them
>> Now, im "Kundalini Yoga" by Satyanda this is clear cut, referring to the
>> work of Motoyama:
>> If you can think clear and concentrated, it is not psychotic.
>> Let us remark, that "clear" does not mean according to the mainstream of
>> actual public opnion.
>> This "people say" goes much deeper, also as a measure,
>> as one may think superficial.
>> "Concentrated" may be a little bit more "formal" and perhaps
>> not so much controversal in concrete cases.
>> But, as is will argue, even here "people say" is more
>> effective present, then tolerable.
> Clear and concentrated in the loose sense of the words, as predicates not
> pertaining to psychosis. let me tell you this: psychosis is (can be) the
> most clear lucid state thinkable - at least as I experienced.
> Concentration
> is another thing. Usually we say that someone is able to concentrate when
> he
> can remain during a certain amount of time withion conventionally defined
> boundaries of some domain of discourse. In psychosis conventio0ns
> dissolve...which means that the usual "agendas" of what belongs and what
> does not belong to a 'proper' stretch of discourse are overridden.
>> Real coherence and concentration as mesure is also indicated by a
>> remark of
>> Jaspers, who declares genuine
>> pathological thinking as confused.
> Yes, indeed, but it is exactly this Jaspers who at the one hand opened up
> the phenomenologiocal approach for all kinds of psychopathology, but...at
> the same time closed the door for so-called incomprehensible psychotic
> discourse. Key figures in German phenomenological psychiatry who did leave
> open the door for assessments interpretations of psychosis were
> Binswanger,
> Konrad, Von Gebsattel, etc. Most prominent and more readable is of course
> the still classic work of Louis Sass ion Madness and Modernism (Of course
> for those who read Dutch...the classic work in our little language is my
> own
> "Pure madness" (2005).
>> This is the case for a Lacanian psychonalytic understanding too.
>> Especially Guattari and Deleuze  have their professional
>> background in these things from Lacan.
>> Left Lacanist was an etiquette in this direction.
> Lacan is quite overrated when iot comes to understanding what a psychosis
> phenomenologically means. Of course, you may say, we are not interested in
> phenomenology, but what is the alternative considering psychosis? I mean
> we
> are not discussing senseless dead academic texts, but real practices in
> psychiatry. In other words...should we send another bunch of 'cultural
> theorists with books of deleuze and lacan in their hands, knowing
> beforehand
> what they will meet, of should we send some open-minded phenomenologists
> over there? I can tell you from a patient's perspective: Give me the
> open-minded ones.
> Anyway...who cares?
> wk
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