[D-G] Mystic, psychosis, , "Normopaths" (from Guattaris de la borde)

hwenk hwenk at web.de
Thu Jan 22 04:12:19 PST 2009

Dear Wouter, (Ruth),

>Brett, C. (2002). Psychotic and mystical States of Being: Connections >and
> Distinctions. In Philosophy, Psychiatry and Psychology 9.4: 321-341.

This article tries to seperate psychosis from mystical experience.

Now, im "Kundalini Yoga" by Satyanda this is clear cut, referring to the 
work of Motoyama:
If you can think clear and concentrated, it is not psychotic.

Let us remark, that "clear" does not mean according to the mainstream of 
actual public opnion.
This "people say" goes much deeper, also as a measure,
as one may think superficial.
"Concentrated" may be a little bit more "formal" and perhaps
not so much controversal in concrete cases.
But, as is will argue, even here "people say" is more
effective present, then tolerable.

Worse, but not seldom,  is a "overdetermination", where the diagnosis is in 
reality made  regardless of a real examantion.

It is interesting, that living along the lines of "people say" cost much
less concentration and clearness, as supposed.
A liason of the frontal lobe has much less
pathological behavior consequences as thought (plausibel by animals and by 
chance cases).
So, a lot of people not even thought to be pathological may have
much less of concentration and clear thinking,  as an official pathological 
The "clearness" is in the memory and mimikry of "people say".

Real coherence and concentration as mesure is also indicated by a remark of 
Jaspers, who declares genuine
pathological thinking as confused.

I think, these "hard" cases are much less in number, than the number
filling  the statistics and the rooms of the medical doctors.

Much of the stress due to a "mystical" experience,
due to brain evolving and synchronzing processes is not to circumfence, but 
only to shorten effective by
the above mentioned Kundalini Yoga.
This is hard work in itself, which may look much less as concentration at 
Refering to a Sufi criteria, the abilities and state of the mind  and psyche 
in psychotic diagnosis often not sought, where they are, but where "people 
say" are used to find it.
In reality and praxis often by  a social criteria:
"The patient is here, there is something wrong - the diagnois
(for the rest of his life?) is ready."
The danger, looking at the Yogic and other cultures understanding,  of an 
error is immense.
This is the case for a Lacanian psychonalytic understanding too.
Especially Guattari and Deleuze  have their professional
background in these things from Lacan.
Left Lacanist was an etiquette in this direction.

It is a question, if the clinical practice of "de la borde" has
lowered the threshold to take people as patients there.
Oury and "de la borde" formed the "lucky" (Guattri) notion of a "normopath" 
to express this sight, that a so called psychotic or
"pathological" case in the ordinary sense, is  more
near to "mystical", "authentic", "healthy" developments of the psyche and 
states than the the only working by the corset of "normal" rules or "people 
say", as the  accepted as normal healthy human being.
("people says" is inspired by Heidegger).

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Wouter Kusters" <wku at ziggo.nl>
To: <deleuze-guattari at lists.driftline.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2009 7:20 PM
Subject: Re: [D-G] 1949 Diss. on Spinoza and Vedanta

> The time thing is different. Time off the rational
>> calandar is still a durational register. The identification with
>> advaiata desired in the Vedanta tradition fails in so far as no
>> single aggregaate could become equal to the unequal of pure
>> ordinality. However, the sense of not having a skin or means of
>> differentiating self from cosmos can be experienced in psychosis
>> and mystical experience. So more a question of inhabiting a time
>> that feels like no time than no time as such.
> Before I give a more elaborate reply, let me mention this ref., before I
> forget:
> Brett, C. (2002). Psychotic and mystical States of Being: Connections and
> Distinctions. In Philosophy, Psychiatry and Psychology 9.4: 321-341.
> Just for who cares.
> Best wishes,
> Wouter K
> _______________________________________________
> List address: deleuze-guattari at driftline.org
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