[D-G] 1949 Diss. on Spinoza and Vedanta

Wed Jan 14 10:29:59 PST 2009

Greetings Paul-it is interesting to hear the directions you are taking. I remember the question of a core personal self being important to your position all those moons ago on spoons.

The reason I write is because I have been studying the lives of Hindu sunyassin dedicated to experiential union with advaita (literal meaning not two). The study was prompted by the similarity of this understanding of nondual reality and themes in Deleuze. The big difference is the manner of attaining what amounts to a transpersonal consciousness-for the sunyassin, the methods are chiefly yogic, contemplative and ascetic-while there is violence in the process,the desired state is blissful immersion and desubjectification v the violent process of desubjectification described by Deleuze.

As with yourself, I am more in favour of subjectivities for better or worse these days. It should not be forgotten that Deleuze also talks about resubjectification-a position that is not tenable for the sunyassin and which Nietzsche did not achieve. I am now out of the closet at having lived through several quite horrifying psychotic episodes in my own meditations on Eternal Return-it was a bit difficult to sat this while I was a doctoral student.

 It is symbolic death (but not quite) for delusionary experience resymbolizes idiosyncratically at the 'edge'. I have been in these expereinces, a housefly, a spaceship and other transitory images of transcndence and immanence (images in which de and re subjectification play back and forth in precisely the zone of indetermination proposed). My point is desubjectification ain't funny and returning from the dead ( as recommeded in WIP) much easier said than done. However, having done it and reassembled as something like a proviosional speaking subject, I would say that there is both something core that is esistentially personal but which by no means can be called an I and encounter which pushes the personal self past its sustainable threshold. In other words- Being is indeed experienced as a clamour in these states but nobody could live there for long. But going there does change subjectivity for better or worse...

Warm Regards
Ruth.C aka Rudeearth
Sloughing one's skin.-The snake that cannot slough its skin perishes. Likewise spirits which are prevented from changing their opinions; they cease to be spirits (Nietzsche: Daybreak:V:573)   

--- pbains at xtra.co.nz wrote:

From: Paul adrian Bains <pbains at xtra.co.nz>
To: deleuze-guattari at lists.driftline.org
Cc: peter maxwell <autonamigo at hotmail.com>,	Isabelle Stengers <istenger at ulb.ac.be>,	postmaster at neurobiol.cyt.edu.ar
Subject: Re: [D-G] 1949 Diss. on Spinoza and Vedanta
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 19:36:31 +1100 (EST)

hi harald,
I probably should unsubscribe! 
My knowledge of spinoza is 0 - and my acquaintance with D&G was limited to a few themes - partic the influence of Raymond Ruyer in What is Phil? 

I guess that your wide ranging readings would exceed my limited knowlede base. My main interest these days (in a vaguely academic genre) is the later work of Isabelle Stengers such as La Sorcellerie Capitaliste (possibly under translation), and the Argentinian/German school of Electroneurobiology:

http://electroneubio.secyt.gov.ar/

particularly the essay 'Palindrome' by Mario Crocco.

Otherwise I am enjoying the work of Paul Williams Robert such as Journey of the Magi and Empire of the Soul

I would not subscribe to the complete dissolution of the 'subject' that some find in d/g and which is a common theme in vedanta. But is there not some minimal subject onto which these assemblages are grafted? (1000P). With the work of Daniel Stern Guattari would also affirm a kind of core subjectivity - one that does not 'emerge'....but which is fundamental.....

When Henry Corbin once said to Gurdjieff 'I do not exist,' G replied 'that's a pity.'

there seems to be a lot out there on d/g, spinoza, vedanta, (including you):

http://www.rationalvedanta.net/bios/rationalists/spinoza

cheers,
Paul
Am 10.01.2009, 20:51 Uhr, schrieb Paul adrian Bains <pbains at xtra.co.nz>:
Dear Paul Bains,

I am very pleased to  see you active in this group.
I think you mean, the philosophivcal standard of the 1949 dissertation is  
not the one of critical western philosophical faculties.
More of a headquater of a church or something like that?

What you  wrote may be, but Spinoza as absolute rationalism may do it the  
other way round.
I think in the light of a "philosophia perennis" and
the absolute rationalism of Spinoza combined with his
very abstract  atomism, it is very surprising
how his doctrine is the same, properly read.
I donn't claim it is done in that book,
as far as I rembember the author claims very much differences.

Especially the unity of substance
behind the different senses for example are almost identical in both  
doctrines.
Being as quality with the water metaphore is used in both.
The therory of imagination and error and psychic matter
is in my eyes among others in the notion of "maya" encoded too.

I am not aware if there are really other so far absolute
rationalistc philosophies as Spinoza and Vedanta.

As I am aquantained with your name through biolinguistics,
and just read in course of Thousanfd plateus 5
for the regimes of signs.
Now, in Spinoza signs are build up of images,
which are very "light".

I am curious, if the building of signs is really done as
multiple overlay in the memory of lots of images
and how this is done on a molecular level.

The signifikant comes from the face (visagite).
This is the hook for the affects and passions - the existental.

The interpretation  in a regime of signs is much more
by "affects" or existental, until there is a
subjectivation.

This is taken up by D&G for the role of the  face for existential
semiotics in mass media.
It is very interesting, if there are "unpersonal" signs
giving existential subjectvations.

The absolute rationalism  is a further stage of absolute deterroialisation  
than ratio&passio (in D&G sense, not absolute rationalism) of the with the  
body  without organs.
This seems to be the same as Spinozas clear and distinct idea of a affect,  
namely as chemico-electrical sense perception with
blissfull voluptas und creative thinking.
In Book V of the Ethics.

This is the same in Indian philosophy, especially Samkhya, Yoga
and Vedanta (Sat, Chit, Ananda).

greetings Harald Wenk

> I guess anything published by Banares Hindu Univ. will show how 'x' is  
> vedanta....or in what way vedanta is better....than 'x'.
>
> Greetings,
> paul
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: hwenk <hwenk at web.de>
> To: deleuze-guattari at lists.driftline.org
> Sent: Sunday, 11 January, 2009 3:42:03 AM
> Subject: Re: [D-G] 1949 Diss. on Spinoza and Vedanta
>
> Hello Susan,
>
> Here we are:
>
> Spinoza in the light of the Vedanta
>   Autor/in Tripathi, Rama Kanta
>   Abstract (1.ed.)
> Banaras (1957). XIV,349 S.[Benedictus de Spinoza]
> (Banaras Hindu Univ. Darsana Series. 1.)
>   Jahr 1957
>
> You may get her in Germany in a University library in Munich.
> It is thr first dissertation of this "official" Series.
>
> This may have the reason, that Spinoza is doing metaphysics
> in accordance with Vedanta, although some differences are found
> in the book.
> But, two heads, ten thinkings, that is very usual.
>
> Going the other way than usual: your interst is more in Spinoza, Vedanta,
> Deleuze Guattari or a theme covered
> by them all like liberation (moksha?).
>
> greetings Harald Wenk
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From: hwenk <hwenk at web.de>
To: deleuze-guattari at lists.driftline.org
Cc: drhwenk at yahoo.de
Sent: Sunday, 11 January, 2009 11:31:20 AM
Subject: Re: [D-G] 1949 Diss. on Spinoza and Vedanta
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