[Deleuze-Guattari] waffling, again...

Super Dragon superdragon at addlebrain.com
Thu Sep 13 01:11:32 PDT 2007

Hi everyone and no one, tried to post earlier in the week and for some reason was not successful. apologies if people have already got this stuff.

Chris-thanks for the psychosis link-i'm quite fascinated by the thought that psychotic experience might be linked to sight in some way and also quite worried by that thought-my workshop treats psychosis as multi-sensory, experienced through all the organs that organize sense ordinarily. sight would have precedence over touch etc if the study is correct. i'm not ready to buy into that yet as often 'delusions' involve skin, taste etc. not always a good experience either, for example experiencing one's mouth full of spiders is extremely distressing for the person feeling that. i've lost any residual romanticism  about the revolutionary 'schiz'. there are potentials for disorganizing dominant order words but the price is high and, as far as i can 'see', sense is always re-organized and often in very ego-centric ways. for example, a lot of delusions function to make the person feel important when they actually feel insignificant or scared-if i am being persecuted by the fbi, i must be special in some way...alternatively, voices telling me that i am scum are better than no conversations at all. voice hearers often talk of the desperate feelings of emptiness when their voices leave them...there is room to think of these themes as organised visually as in Lacan's mirror stage but i would also want to keep hold of 'pre-visual' layers of becoming repeated differently in psychotic experience-for example really experiencing oneself as a housefly    

Charles, sadly the url did not connect so i am still in  (my usual) state of ignorance about your work. it sounds like you have been thinking a lot...i'm kind of between a rock and a hard place on the role of the 'expert'. one of the projects i'm working on involves service users in the training of clinical psychologists-the role is consultative but, we are told, service users can't be consultants because this implies expertise and professional experience. our answer is that service users are the experts of their own experience with all the mini despotism that this implies. i have to fight this fight in the same way feminisms should still do molar politics but i take your point about expertise on this list-i mean who does transcendetal empiricism think s/he is?

james, the neologism is nothing big or clever-psychiatry definies psychotic experience as lacking in insight and unreal. i don't think i need to defend the real on this list. the question of insight (linked i think to my response to Chris) is a tricky one. it is true that interior critical reflection is often lost in psychosis but many people that hear voices dialogue with them. the critical reflection has moved outward. often there's so much going on in the room  that the person can't sustain a conversation as well as listen to all the info so they sit there looking stupid. so just a few terms to indicate some of the complexity and thoughtfulness of this.

take care 
Sloughing one's skin.-The snake that cannot slough its skin perishes. Likewise spirits which are prevented from changing their opinions; they cease to be spirits (Nietzsche: Daybreak:V:573)   

--- ccjones at ceinternet.com.au wrote:

From: Chris Jones <ccjones at ceinternet.com.au>
To: deleuze-guattari at lists.driftline.org
Subject: Re: [Deleuze-Guattari] waffling, again...
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 17:32:03 +1000

>  Psychosis Revisited

the below site on subliminal vision and psychosis may be of interest....


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