[D-G] Fwd: Re: --

hwenk hwenk at web.de
Thu Jun 1 10:01:15 PDT 2006


to be a little philosophic historical, the main difference between
Spinoza and Leibniz is, that for Spinoza, the whole
nature, the whole universe is ONE where for Leibniz the monads,
the are also the individual souls as I's, don't have any contacr with
one another "the monads are without windows".
The contact betwee rthe monads is only made throgh god himself.

Both Leibniz and Spinoza are bound tpo the doctrines
of the curch or the mediaval methaphysics or theology.
As you may have experienced for yourself very often, people with hifh
interst in
one issu, maybe religion or philosophy<, hat almost more another if
they are relatively near than they hate people not interested at in the

There different philosophies or different religions fight very hard against
one another.

Being a little bit superficial, both, the catholic doctrine of (Duns Scotus
for example) and Spinoza and Leibniz
are refinements of the doctrines of Plato and Aristotle and as such have a
of common ground.

What raises the theological soul was the tendency of Spinoza to turn sin
into illness
and to in their eyes to destroy with his denial of free will the
fundamentals personal responsibility
and as such the only way of men to conduct their live right seeing it as
their own product.
This is a misinterpretation, the only more realistic view of Spinoza is to
look at
the outer and inner circumstances more than the theologians.

In Deleuze "Mille Plateaux" there is another story related to the cosmic or
religious view of
your soul pain.
There a red Indian woman cheated her husband - slept wit another man.
Now there a two reactions: The nomadic way is to destroy her face a little
the paranoid way is to diagnose a deep disturbance of the cosmic order and
to go
and repair it by the means at hand - that is by mythological rites like a
dance or
or something like that.

On the other hand schizophrenics in general have a tendency to
feel very social and responsible for the community.

In literature and dreams  problems are also often dramatized
as it is necessary to save a lot of people by urgent deeds.

A good novel, as you know for the question of religion and the church
is the part of the "Brothers Karamassow" of Dostojewskij called "The great

greetings Harald Wenk

-----Original Message-----
From: deleuze-guattari-bounces at lists.driftline.org
[mailto:deleuze-guattari-bounces at lists.driftline.org]On Behalf Of adline
Sent: Mittwoch, 31. Mai 2006 16:26
To: adline vanlindenbergh;
deleuze-guattari-driftline.org at lists.driftline.org;
deleuze-guattari-driftline.org at lists.driftline.org
Subject: Re: [D-G] Fwd: Re: --

Guattari wrote a letter to Deleuze on the difference
he found between "Spinoza" and "Leibniz"
For Spinoza the substance was whole and undividable
whereas for Leibniz, (Guattari speaks of devilization through
mathematical operations)the modes left a part of
uncertainty, in that they could deterritorialize
which left a place for religion chimeras

i don't understand this from Guattari
but it is going in an atheistic track
which is relieving, comforting the soul

what i -felt- is anguish, fear of a God
which is always displaced to another
person in the awake of dreams raising to  nightmares
. the machine of gods produced an effect of
expropriation from intensity of life on earth
to purgatory, cleansing that were harrassant and impossible
at this moment i feel earth is atacked by mounsters.

how yoga could help us
? i already have tried yoga
find the smells of incense attractive enough
i think what i need is physical contact
and trusting someone who could free me from old ties
from this inertia induced by a psychoholic affair, lovehoholic road to

its of course difficult to hope such a precious thing from internet
which are filled with transferring codes that i don't get
the same way as internauutics "friends", and where others cannot
provide me this feeling of physical touch (the orgonatic intensity was
strongly involved
in these non mystical universes or rather dreams i made)

my resolution so far is to analyse those dreams, in the strict sense i
want them to stop
i don't believe in the gods what they appear like chimera for
a nut of reason : the scenario, the whole escenario
of the universe i saw is of an affective order, not mystical
like spinoza, a quick injection of atheism is my advice in this case

i seek concettos invented by the Church and the Roman Empire to control
the reason space
as Spinoza and others thinkers decribed, to control this nut of reason

the hardest was to accept that the dubbing of self, this unconditional
was an (other) hallucination. but i need to see it that way, now

i must choose productivity over nonproductivity of the limbo stasis
in which i was centered by Lucifer

there is
mystical hallucination
to me religion since yesterday is a collective psychosis
and this despite what Bruno Latour might have to say
to Isabelle Stengers, to the point it is likely the latters encouraging
the non-philosopher
to dream awake about Virgin Mary and the apparitions
if it works for them it is good but also impossible
for the joy of God to leaving the ground here

thanks for sending your concerns here
  adline vanlindenbergh
  bisouxnoursfast at fastmail.fm

http://www.fastmail.fm - A no graphics, no pop-ups email service

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