[D-G] zinfandel

james spatium at gmail.com
Thu Feb 10 14:52:53 PST 2005


I have been waiting with baited breath for an explanation as to why
you think interpretation is the required process as opposed to
experimentation, despite D&G's words to the contrary.  You have
tempted me with the following:

"To be gross abt it, I think the distinction has to do with the difference
between two acts of interpretation: sorting out 'actual' differences through
forming royal analogies by noticing similarities that differ and empirical
veridity or the virtual differences held together by common analogies,
things that sample a common, measurable property."

...but I would really like to hear more.  For instance, I don't
understand how one could maintain a "virtual difference" while
subjecting it to measure.

As you said previously, the statement "there is nothing to interpret"
requires our attention.  Can you help me understand why you insist on


On Mon, 7 Feb 2005 13:29:23 -0500, Chapman <chapman0603 at rogers.com> wrote:
> Hey, yes. I quite like that. I agree with your sight that this quote is
> opaque, but precisely opaque about the difference between capital and
> empire, I am thinking about the role of interpretation again, here.
> Thanks Jon.
> Chris
> -----Original Message-----
> From: deleuze-guattari-driftline.org-bounces at lists.driftline.org
> [mailto:deleuze-guattari-driftline.org-bounces at lists.driftline.org]On
> Behalf Of Jon Mendel
> Sent: Monday, February 07, 2005 1:05 PM
> To: deleuze-guattari-driftline.org at lists.driftline.org
> Subject: Re: [D-G] zinfandel
> Sylvie and Chris,
> Thanks for forwarding the references - to be honest, I'm starting to
> think I might have mis-remembered or imagined what D&G said.
> Chris - I'm not sure how much help I can be; to be honest, my first
> response to the quote you've forwarded is to think that it's extremely
> opaque!  For what it's worth, my reading of this quote would be that
> this 'de facto mix' of different semiotics and subjectifications forms a
> type of imperialism/capitalism/empire that can work to crush all
> non-capitalist semiotics.  D&G seem to be saying both that this can be
> interpreted as the semiotic of modern white man but also that this
> 'white' semiotic is very much penetrated by other semiotics - "each
> element suffuses the other like drops of red-black wine in white water"
> and "faciality is always a multiplicity" (ATP 182).  Capitalism would
> then function through variegation - the "deepest law of capitalism [is
> that] it continually sets and then repels its own limits, but in so
> doing gives rise to numerous flows in all directions that escape its
> axiomatic" and even uses these flows in order to reterritorialise other
> flows that might seem to escape capitalism (ATP 472)  Perhaps capitalism
> would therefore construct its 'average' white face through the use of
> variegation?
> Jon
> Chapman wrote:
> >Jon,
> >
> >I've just scanned the 'Faciality' essay and was unable to find your desired
> >reference under my pink and yellow highlights. Perhaps you can help me with
> >something?
> >
> >Would you consider the following passage, (found in some cantankerous
> >purple), to be an accurate inflection or reflection of what they mean and
> >whom you think they have in mind when they are considering the 'terrible'
> >faces of capital, or is there a distinct difference between stages of
> >capital- and imperial- ism that I'm missing?
> >
> >"Neither (despotic slavery in general or proceeding by authoritarian
> >contract) begins with Christ, or the White Man as Christian Universal:
> there
> >are Indian, African, and Asiatic despotic formations of signifiance; the
> >authoritarian process of subjectification appears most purely in the
> destiny
> >of the Jewish people. But however different these semiotics are, they still
> >form a de facto mix, and it is on the level of this mixture that they
> assert
> >their imperialism, in other words, their common endeavour to crush all
> other
> >semiotics. There is no signifiance that does not harbour the seeds of
> >subjectivity; there is no subjectification that does not drag with it
> >remnants of signifier... Our semiotic of modern White Men, the semiotic of
> >capitalism, has attained this state  of mixture in which signifiance and
> >subjectification effectively interpenetrate." (ATP 182)
> >
> >I'm unsure if they are suggesting that capital is a stage of entwinement
> >beyond imperialism and the place of the 'white face' is as the telos of
> >Indian, African, and Asiatic cystemps of empire? I can't square the
> >'in-general' of capital's average white sensual face with your memory of it
> >being coordinated by variegation.
> >
> >
> >Chris.
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: deleuze-guattari-driftline.org-bounces at lists.driftline.org
> >[mailto:deleuze-guattari-driftline.org-bounces at lists.driftline.org]On
> >Behalf Of Jon Mendel
> >Sent: Monday, February 07, 2005 6:59 AM
> >To: deleuze-guattari at driftline.org
> >Subject: [D-G] capitalism has many faces
> >
> >
> >Hi,
> >
> >I seem to remember that, in ATP, D&G said something along the lines of
> >'capitalism has many faces to the east and to the west, each one worse
> >than the last'.  If anyone remembers where, that'd be much-appreciated :)
> >
> >Cheers,
> >
> >Jon
> >
> >
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> >
> >.
> >
> >
> >
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